A question (or 3) about dive courses

[neilegend]

Hi Doc and anyone else who can answer this query.
i have my open water through Put Another Dollar In and am thinking of going to the advanced open and then hopefully further, i have looked at the requirements for the courses as listed on here for the SDI program and admit that you need a lot more experience than just do 9 dives over a few weekends and be an advanced open diver!!
this can only be good for the divers involved to have more experience, so far i have 34 logged dives (no, that doesnt count the 3 min dive to 3.3 meters at portsea pier with Tony and Mark ) so 30 away from the course.
The Question i have is (finally they say!!) how hard is it, or does it actually matter, to change from O/w Padi to AO/W from SDI? is one able to do a course from group S and then another "specialty" course from group P and have the other groups skills course recognised?

as an aside i think from the diving i have done that i think the SDI might be a better option, but would like to hear some input from others with their own tales of crossing over or staying in one dive school.
thanks from neil.

[whale]

Hey Neil

I've only dived on the PADI regime and as such can't really make any comments about the competiors.

I was happy enough with my training and the ability of the instructors I had at the various places I have done training.

I think it comes down to what you want to do in the future?

Do you want to be an instructor or DM in various places around the world? Well I believe PADI has the lions share of the market and as such you would possibly be better off sticking with the big guy.

If you are after specialties and SSI or one of the others is cheaper than PADI and you don't intend on going pro, then maybe use one of them to get the training.

When I started diving I didn't even know about the other schools prior to my training so I started with PADI. If the school we were booked into was one of the other schools I would have started with them and kept going until I was RD in that school as I am with PADI.

I'm still happy with the training I recieved and the care and due diligence of the staff of the various outlets where I have undertaken training and purchased gear from.

Funily enough, I'm not even sure if I have been into a scuba store that isn't PADI. (No offence intended to the Doc - but I've been out of the game for 7 years )

My 2c.

Cheers

Pete

[Hev]

Neil,
It doesn't really matter which organisation you get the card from. What matters is the skills you learn from the instructor, from your buddies, from debriefing on the couch at the Docs after a diving day, ...

All the agencies will recognise each others certs and allow you to transfer. Back in the old days I did open water and advanced with FAUI, who then became NASDS. I then went diving. I've only done more courses in the last 2-3 years because now if I want to do a deep dive and/or a deco dive I have to have a card that says I'm allowed to.

Used to be you learned by doing, I still think it's the best way. So go get the cards you need to do the dives you want to do. Once you can find an instructor you like/trust then certify through whatever agency they use. When it comes to the crunch the instructor means a hell of a lot more than the specified curriculum.
- Heather

[chewy]

I find dive instruction organizations are only too willing to encourage you to do their courses esp. b/w SSI and PADI - i.e. crossover. It's rarely an issue who you previously dived with (at least recreationally). I've only checked SSI and it appears they do more skills than PADI but again it comes down to the instructor and perhaps not the organization.

It's only when you start to do more technical courses does it become more 'selective' which organization you dive with. For example, I don't believe any non-GUE course will enable you to by-pass the GUE fundamental course. I could be wrong but it appears the technical courses have stricter requirements and don't always recognize reciprocal certification.

One consideration is PADI is most well known and therefore their cert. card is easily recognized if you dive-travel widely. A CDAA (cave diving assoc.) certification may not be recognized in as many places as a PADI Deep even though both may give a diver certification down to 40m

I agree the instructor makes the most difference incl. your enjoyment - some instructors coach you to become a better divers - they have that ability to mentor, and some have more difficulty communicating than others. Word of mouth is probably the easiest way to find a good instructor.

Irrespective of organization and courses, use your skills....I try to do ~2 skills per dive: remove fin, replace mask, change regulators, deploy SMB etc....it's fun to try different things each time (esp. with a buddy) and when there's no panic. Indeed there's been a few times I've nearly laughed at myself for being such a Gumby, as I'm sure have my dive buddies.

[neilegend]

i have decided to go the SDI for my advanced. all i need now is for the doc to run an advanced diver program and i will do my darndest to get time off of work to do it
my new years resolutions were to get myt A.O.W and to logg my 100th dive before the end of the year - so far up to dive 48 so only 52 to go

[Dive in wine tanks]

Hi Neil, I two could be interested in doing AOW. Completed my OW on the 15/1/06 & weather permitting will complete my 63rd dive tommorow (I gotta be happy about that) Hell YES. Time for the next step AOW, then rescue diver.

[lloyd_borrett]

Instructor. Instructor. Instructor.

It's ALL about the instructor you choose.

From what I've seen so far, most of the various training agencies are pretty much the same. They all seem to be dumbing down their courses and course requirements to suit the lowest common denominator person wanting to do a course while on a vacation.

So the real differentiating factor becomes the instructor you choose and the attitude you take into the course. How much preparation will you do before taking the course?
Are you there to get a certification, or to truly learn about a new set of skills to improve your diving?

What is the instructor's personal diving history? Some instructors only seem to teach. They rarely seem to get out and do any personal diving. Instructors that do not dive for themselves are not taxing their abilities and not accumulating the experience to pass on to us.

Some instructors may be great divers, but the best instructors are also great communicators and educators. And remember, the way the system is, the best instructors aren't likely to charge you any more to do a course with them than the dud instructors will.

All of the agencies seem to recognise each others advanced and specialist certifications, so the agency isn't really the issue. Should you wish to go to dive master, instructor or whatever later, the agency you do that with will recognise your prior certifications with other agencies, or offer an easy conversion path.

I'm about to do the eqipment specialist course. The instructor is someone The Scuba Doctor said is THE person to do this course with. It just so happens it will be via a PADI dive shop so I guess I will have a PADI specialist certification once the course is completed.

I'm also looking to do my Rescue Diver course sometime this summer. Again, I'm planning to do it with the instructor recommended by The Scuba Doctor. But this time it will be through a different PADI dive shop. The instructor is an ex paramedic, which makes him very appropriate for this course.

I'm also trying to get to do some of underwater naturalist type courses. Again I'm looking to do them with the world renowned guy recommended by The Scuba Doctor. And I don't even know which "agency" that may be with, if any.

What I'm finding most useful is the pre-course study and diving I'm doing. Consciously practising existing skills on each dive. Reading widely and having discussions on the couch at the Docs to expand my knowledge base. I'm also getting great perspectives from the VSAG guys I'm diving with.

While in Sydney over Xmas, I came across the Doing It Right and Dress for Success books from GUE/DIR. While there is much in the GUE/DIR specifics I may never put into practise, I'm finding the philosophy and approach very enlightening.

The GUI/DIR lists of "Advanced Diver" skills will give me a new benchmark to achieve. They seems to a a step up from, and more comprehensive than, the skill levels set in the PADI advanced open water course.

Best Regards, Lloyd Borrett.

[DIRdave]

Hi all
as you can see from my nickname I'm going down the GUE path . I dived with Hev and Chewy on weekend , and can't praise enuff the GUE fundamentals course I completed 8 months ago. It was like teaching an old dog new tricks - I thought my trim and bouyancy was top notch -until I saw the video from the pool sessions . Man what a steep learning curve. I now feel much more comfortable in both the ocean and caves of Gambier -I use less gas and enjoy more diving within a team situation.Plus I finally learnt how to deploy a SMB one handed safely !!!!!
Luckly for us divers here in Melbourne we have a new GUE Instructor - Steve Trewavas - he assisted/taught on my Fundies course and man can he hold trim and bouyancy-plus he is a wealth of knowledge plus being very skilled in turning divers into what they are trying to acheive.
have a look at www.gue.com then go to course schededule -punch in his name and see when next fundies is on ( april and May I think)- you won't regreat it - especially those divers who want to go deeper , or get into tech diving .however the fundies is now broken into rec and tech so you can still do it in BCD and single tank if you want
PM me or talk to Steve
hope this helps
cheers and see you in da water

[neil_richardson]

GUE, isn't that like a more expensive version of PADI???

But seriously, okay i agree you can learn a lot from undertaking a GUE course. Wouldn't undertake one due to the cost, and the fact that i like to be multi skilled and adaptable rather then specialised and single optioned. But if you haven't got into deco diving, cave diving etc, then can't knock them, as a stepping stone.

[lloyd_borrett]

If you're interested in scuba diving courses provided by The Scuba Doctor, then please take a look at https://www.scubadoctor.com.au/dive-courses.htm